Why You Can Never Spend Too Much Time with Your Customers
In this episode, Alison discusses the importance of a customer advisory board and of personally spending time with your customers. She also talks about the flywheel they have built through their unique strategy team and how they incorporate customer insights back into their content.
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[MUSIC]
Welcome to Pipeline Visionaries.
I'm Ian Faison, CEO of Caspian Studios.
And today I am joined by a special guest, Alison, how are you?
>> I'm so excited to be here.
>> Super excited to have you on the show.
Today's show is brought to you by our friends at Qualified.
You can go to Qualified.com to learn about the number one conversational sales
and
marketing platform for companies revenue teams that use Salesforce.
Head over to Qualified.com to learn more.
Alison, we're going to get into marketing at Moink.
We're going to get into your background.
Your uncutable budget items and everything in between.
First question, what was your first job in marketing?
>> Yes.
So I graduated in 2000 right into the dot com bus stop.
And I joined Oakley Interactive.
And I was on the Jaguar Cars account and the Goldman account.
And it was a great opportunity to really cut my teeth as budgets were being cut
And it was a great experience.
That's when I got started.
>> Yeah, it's so funny looking back on things like that.
And you're like, depending on a bunch of different factors,
sometimes coming into a good market is great.
Sometimes coming into a market that's just got cut back is great.
I guess I suppose it is what you make of it anyway.
>> I think there's actually a lot of data that shows that you actually do
better
graduating into a down market.
And I'm sure that you just develop a lot more grit coming into those markets.
I graduated in 2000 and 2008.
So if you want to know when our sessions coming,
just watch what I'm going to graduate.
>> [LAUGH] I like that.
And fly forward to today, tell us what it means to be CMO of Moink.
>> Oh, first of all, it means to work with the absolute best clients on the
planet,
and the hands down.
>> And what do you oversee as your purview as CMO?
>> Sure, so I manage our growth marketing teams, our content and
com organization, and the outbounding team, as well as a really unique
organization
called the strategy team, which is an organization made up of sort of a SWAT
team
of former clients who have come over to work with probably our biggest client
organizations directly to make sure that they're getting the most value out of
Moink.
And that team is about 22 people strong.
It's a global organization, and they're a really exciting team.
And they are sort of a little bit of the lifeblood of that content team because
they are working sort of hand in glove with our most senior clients.
And then a lot of the insights that they're creating is fueling our content and
coms team, which again is going into the outbounding team.
So we have a really nice flywheel in effect right now, which is taken about a
year and
a half to put in place, but it's really exciting.
>> That's super fascinating, that is super unique.
And I'm curious, like when did that start?
>> Well, I guess I'll take a step back and let me first just tell you a little
bit
about what Moink does, because I think that sets the stage.
So we are a platform that builds personalization for customer engagement with
both
automation and artificial intelligence.
And we help our clients connect with their customers across a variety of
different channels.
We do it on email, mobile push, SMS, and in app.
And you might know us for our legacy product, which is Studio, but
we actually now have two products now.
We have Studio and our AI product, then G.
And Studio originally activates real time data such as contextual data,
as well as behavioral data.
And it transforms that into real time content.
And what we're known for things like creating the Spotify,
your interview email, for example.
And then DaVinci taps into your existing content library and
knows using Moink AI, it determines the best email for
each individual customer on your file.
That's sort of going to be the end of my pitch.
So I actually joined Moink 12 years ago, if you can imagine,
as the 14th employee.
And I joined, it's a typical startup in a bit of a catch all role,
but immediately I gravitated towards the client experience team.
And I started working with our clients.
And I was on and I ultimately led our US customer success team.
And about five years into that experience, I had an insight that we
could really benefit from a group of people who had a different set of
skills than our client experience team.
For CX team, you're looking for people who can run through brick walls,
who will do anything for their clients, who will go above and beyond.
And really don't have the word no in their vocabulary.
What I was looking for were people who really understood the business of their
clients and could translate software into that lingua franca,
because they had lived it.
And that's not a skill set that you're hiring for in SaaS, right?
And people who really understand like, what does it mean when the Fed
changes interest rates to a strategy for a credit card marketer, right?
What does it mean when stores shut down because of COVID and
you've got to do curbside pickup for retail marketer?
Or when like, you know, the supply chain gets totally disrupted for
retail marketer, right?
What does that do to your email marketing strategy overnight?
So that's a different muscle.
And so I pitched this to the board and happily they gave me a shot.
And so I hired a former client, one of them, and he came over.
He was terrific, and we started the retail practice.
And then from there, we started the travel practice and
then financial services and then media tech.
And now the group is 22 people strong and we have it internationally.
And they are the probably one of the most sought after resources within the
company.
>> That's amazing.
And how are they FTE or like they full time?
>> Yeah, they're full time.
And the way they're allocated is essentially within the company,
anybody on the go to market team can really sort of submit to have them
allocated
to probably sort of our top clients.
And they're really sought after.
So it's very competitive to get them allocated.
We do it sort of on annual process.
And they have a variety of different engagements.
Some are like six to nine months, some are shorter form.
And essentially their remit is to go into these large organizations and
say, how can we help drive your business forward using move-only technology?
And to know those businesses inside and out.
And they've just had a really transformational impact on our business.
And then there's a large launch of our clients that they can't personally
impact.
So they do a ton of enablement where they come up with decks and
sort of playbooks and say, okay, regional bank, here's what again,
a Fed interest rate change means to you.
And here's a script and here are some use cases that you can go in and
really quickly enact without me personally being present.
That is really going to move the needle on your strategies.
>> Yeah, that's incredible.
>> Yeah, like a souped up version of sales engineer mixed with customer success
mixed up with almost like a consultant, pretty rad.
>> Exactly.
And again, you can imagine they engender a lot of trust and respect from senior
clients.
They're not trying to sell you, they're trying to get to mutual success pretty
quickly.
And then again, they help us generate a lot of really authentic content.
I find a lot of times content marketers,
rinsass companies are sort of appended on to an organization.
And the content's not being generated organically from the business,
it's sort of an afterthought and it feels that way, right?
It feels like it's just sort of being written carelessly in this sort of
structure that we have, it's very, very authentic.
>> Very cool.
Let's get to our first segment, the trust tree,
where we go and feel honest and trusted and
making sure those deepest, darkest pipeline secrets.
We know a little bit about what your company does.
Tell me more about these customers, what types of customers do you have and
then what does that buying committee look like?
>> Sure.
So our customers are typically CRM leaders.
So it's really up and down that chain reporting into the CMO.
So typically it might be the signature, it might be a SVP or a VP.
And then the committee might be anyone that sort of contributes to that.
So we certainly work with IT in that process.
They'll kick the tires on the decision to purchase us.
But ultimately that piece of paper is going to go to the CMO usually.
>> What's your marketing strategy holistically?
>> Sure, it's an AVM playbook.
So and it's a team sport.
We are going after, I'd say holistically this year.
We're looking at about 3000 names globally that we're focused on.
And it's a growth game and also a new and horizontal game.
So we know who we are focused on.
They're not coming to our website as unknown organizations and
then revealing themselves to us and under like cloak of darkness.
And they're certainly not buying move link with a credit card.
And so we spend a lot of time going after them,
making them aware of move link, educating them.
And the good news is that we've had 12 years in market, we have great
reputation.
I'd say probably our biggest challenges overcoming misconceptions about our
feature set and
just what exactly our product is in market.
The good news is that there's been a lot of changes within organizations.
Certainly over the last, well, definitely over the last 12 years, but
certainly over the last like three years, just there's been some volatility.
And that benefits us as it does a lot of SaaS companies when people change jobs
they take their vendors with them.
And that knowledge goes with you.
So as people move organizations, they're often looking to make an impact
quickly.
And one of the first things that usually happens is at our price point,
they'll bring us in and we can come under the radar within a certain
procurement
price point and they can look to make an impact pretty quickly.
We have a, I would say like a sales led process where we have an outbounding
team,
where we're going after certain names and then they're supporting a sales team.
We obviously have solutions engineers who can come in and bring in demos, etc.
And then it's a probably a under a year long sales process,
depending upon the complexity of the organization, etc.
Like everyone we're seeing longer sales cycles.
And then of course, as all SaaS companies,
we look to see a lot of growth once we're in and we see mutual success.
>> Anything else on marketing structure that might be different?
>> I would say, no, really that flywheel is something that we're just very,
very proud of.
The other piece is that this year we brought the outbounding team into the
marketing
organization.
>> Cool, okay.
>> Which I know is sort of 50/50 from my conversations with other
CMOs.
So I think that's also been really exciting in terms of bringing that
organization closer to content marketing, event marketing,
making sure that they're really aware of all of the tools that they have
available
to them.
And not just like a buffet, but that they're really close to what the benefits
of the product are and that they have that sort of like coursing through their
savings and that they are culturally close to that stuff, that it's not just
being delivered to them passively.
>> I've said this many times on the show, but without a doubt outbound is
marketing function.
Like it doesn't have to live in under marketing.
>> Exactly, we don't have to align.
>> Yeah, but I think it's like it's very silly to imagine that it's a sales
function.
You're not convincing someone to buy something, like you're not.
You're convincing them to take an action which is to talk to a sales person who
might sell you something.
I don't understand how it would be anything other than marketing.
And it's funny because yeah, where it lives is up to you, but I've always felt
that way.
>> Yeah, it's really, it needs to be paired with marketing to I think authent
ically
convey the brand as well, or else it's just going to just reek as a tactic.
And if you wanted to really put your best foot forward and be authentic,
I think marketing is the best steward for that.
>> Without a doubt, and the thing is I just think we're just waiting.
It's not a decade ago.
So outbound is just really different.
Once we specialized everything, then everybody now knows that people are
specialized and you go, okay, well, you're here to qualify me.
It sounds like you're here to waste my time.
>> Mm-hm, 100%.
>> Yeah, there has to be so much value in that interaction, or it's over before
it
begins.
>> Yeah, exactly, that's exactly right.
And if you're speaking one to many, I just always like, one to many is
marketing,
one to one is sales.
>> Yeah, yeah.
>> That's the way it is.
Any sort of learnings there?
>> I think making sure that they really understand the pressures and
stresses that marketers are under, right?
It's a very difficult time for marketers right now.
And so I spend a lot of time with our clients.
>> Because you're selling to marketers.
>> 100%.
>> Yeah, yeah, not the marketing team.
>> No.
>> This one of the-
>> Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's our problem.
No.
So that they really intimately understand RICP and everything from the sort of
buying
environment to the pressures and stresses of the street right now to their
career
longevity to what their inbox is going to look like to what their days are like
So we have a wonderful customer advisory board.
It is hands down the best, best part of my job.
We have a 55 person customer advisory board that is now global.
It just came back from London.
We had a wonderful dinner with about seven of our members in the UK,
driving our global CAD meeting in the US on Wednesday.
And these guys are just phenomenal.
And so when we have our outbounding quarterly meetings,
we'll have one of them come and sort of talk to the folks and
just share what's going on with them.
And we had one of our clients come to the last one.
And just what was so clear is just he's died in the wool,
just to his core a retailer.
Like his mother was a retailer, he grew up in Ohio, which is a hub of
just sort of like retail knowledge, grew up running around the rounders at
this retail institution that she was a manager of.
He is going to be a retailer for the rest of his career.
He's so passionate about everything like retail gossip, retail lore.
And that just was so clear to the team in a way that could have never been
evoked to them in enablement, right, condensed in a slide.
Just having him talk to them for an hour and then answering questions about
what gets you to respond to an email, what gets you to answer a phone call.
And it was just really, really eye opening.
So creating that kind of a connection has been great.
>> All right, let's get to our next segment.
The playbook, this is where you open up the playbook and
talk about the tactics that help you win.
What are your three channels or tactics that are your most uncutable budget
items?
>> Let's do it.
So first up, events, we host some of the best events in SAS hands down.
The first one is of course our Jewel in the Crown Think Summit.
This started in New York and then we brought it to London two years ago.
And it's phenomenal if you haven't attended.
I'd love to see you there.
We have one in June in New York and then October in London.
And it's just a great event and we have a huge focus on getting out of the way
and
letting our clients speak.
And it is very highly regarded for being not salesy.
About 700 people in New York and 400 people in London.
And it's just been wildly successful in terms of growth and
just a big momentum event in terms of creating a lot of content that we can use
to accelerate pipeline.
Then I'd say next up, we spend a lot of time on content.
So I mentioned before that sort of flywheel that we have with the strategy team
That is just phenomenal.
It takes a variety of different shapes.
So whether it's webinars, white papers, video content, it's something that we
invest a lot
of time and money into.
We have an amazing video team now and they are constantly on planes going all
over the
country, going to different countries sometimes.
But there's probably no better way to really convey the impact that you have
than
a client speaking about the impact that we've had on their brand on site and
their gorgeous branded headquarters at an event that's being hosted with the
strategy team.
And with that incredible vibe that's created at an onsite summit with everybody
laughing
and that wonderful energy that's being evoked, it's just priceless.
So to the extent to which we can capture that as it's happening, it's our
pleasure.
So those moments are really great.
And then if you can capture that in one format, you can usually turn it into
other formats.
So if you get a video, you can create other types like different case studies
and
things like that.
So content has really been critical.
Then I'd say the last piece, after events, probably, I'd say our cab because of
the ability
that it's given us to listen to our clients and build relationships.
And though it doesn't scale, I mentioned it's only about 55 clients, the
insights that
it gives us and the ability to scale those insights across our entire customer
base of
600 clients globally is absolutely priceless.
So we do focus groups across that cab.
And these are our most valuable clients.
It's just unparalleled.
We could not assemble a more important group on demand and get insights like
this.
There's just no way we could do research like this on demand and the ability to
have them,
you know, we have a Slack channel for them.
We have a community on Slack called Mavens.
That's for all of our customers that we've invested in significantly.
And then we have a private channel just for them.
And you know, we also were on demand for them.
So if they have questions about the product, our head of product, Brian Wade,
he's available
as well.
So I'd say, you know, having that relationship with our best customers and
making sure that
we're available to them, it's 100% worth it.
Yeah, it's interesting.
I wrote an article a while back about community.
That was sort of, I think people get community wrong because it's actually
communities plural.
And then you sort of have to think about like all the different ways that you
're going
to be doing community and where these people sort of like exist already.
But one of the things that I had a highlight in the article is sort of this
idea of like
total addressable community and sort of like this, you know, people sort of
want to make
a movement or they want to, you know, do those sort of things.
These are the people I call us like they wear the t-shirt.
Like if they're a developer, they wear a t-shirt that says developer, right?
And so like there's many different communities within that.
And one of the ones that I always talk about is your cab as a community.
And so, you know, it's so important to be able to like, you know, the club
within the
club sort of an idea of like, what do you get if you're in this, you know,
private ultra
elite sort of group?
And then what do you get for like, you know, then your customer community will
step outside
of that and then the sort of the broader community, which like maybe or maybe
not they're a customer
already, but maybe they're just a prospect.
And I think that one thing that people don't necessarily get right with that is
sort of
like what you seems like you all are doing really well is providing additional,
you know,
layered resources there, not just sort of trying to do one size fits all
because that's
so hard to do.
But saying like, hey, these certain accounts are going to have this additional
level of,
you know, access to the cab, we can't do it for everyone, but we can do it for
those.
And then we're still going to take insights and put it into like the larger
groups.
Yeah, you have to be incredibly accountable to these folks who are lending you
their ear
and are giving you so much of their time.
I mean, our cab meetings are two and a half hours.
They're we have these global meetings three times a year.
And then we have a full day before things summit.
That's great.
It's really invigorating.
It's about, you know, five hours and then we have a wonderful dinner that goes
into things summit pre-party.
It's a significant investment in time for these very senior people.
And it's great because then they show up at things summit having sort of pre
bonded.
It's like the event before college starts.
So then when they'll show up at college, they'll know each other.
But it's it's a lot of time for a very senior crew.
And so you bet we got to be accountable to them.
And so we're showing them things on our roadmap and we're giving them access to
, you know,
sort of tests that, you know, pilots that may or may not come to fruition.
If we're not going to do something, we're going to tell them why.
Maybe it's directly because of their feedback, right?
And so we're going to be very, very transparent with this group.
This is not performative.
This is not something that is super glossy.
This is raw and they like that.
And we did a focus group last week that was, we did a naming exercise and we
had done the
prior year naming exercise with them.
And this is like really how we name our products with their feedback.
And some of the crew had been there last year when they were like, we love this
stuff.
This is great.
So.
What about your, your most cuddable budget item or something that's going away?
Yeah.
It's interesting.
I love podcasts and I love your podcast, but we've done podcasts in the past
and I think
we just don't have the distribution chops to own and distribute a podcast and
we just
got some data back from a customer survey that sort of reinforces that.
I think there's opportunities, as I mentioned, video really does well for us,
sort of shorter
form video and testimonials do great for us.
So again, I don't think any ideas inherently of that idea.
I just think there are different ways to execute them.
And so do I think that audio or video is that idea?
No, I think again, it's about form factor distribution.
So we just don't have the resources to devote to a full podcast series right
now.
So that's not a priority.
What about your 10% experimental budget?
Yeah.
I mean, we're always playing with new things.
So we just launched a new webinar format called Magenta Friday, which was
really successful.
And it was actually our second most successful webinar ever, which is shocking
because it
was two and a half hours long on a Friday.
And it was designed to be cut up in those shorter forms.
So I think each segment was 20 minutes.
So it's kind of snackable.
And it was very successful from a Legion standpoint.
So we're beginning to put that into the machine.
And so that's potentially the beginning of something that will explore more
fruitfully.
But more interestingly, it came out of a new campaign creation process that
Justin Keller
argued VP of growth marketing created.
He's just in his second full quarter in role.
And so we're just trying to create a more agile process where instead of
putting together
our entire campaign planning process beginning of the year, we're being more
agile ourselves.
How do you view your website?
Our website, great question.
We're in the midst of overhauling our website.
As I mentioned, we are a very considered purchase.
And no one's coming out of the blue onto our website and just converting with a
credit
card.
You can't do that.
It's just not possible.
We get a fair amount, a very steady amount of demo requests through our website
It's been very steady since I've been in role.
But you probably consult our website having known of us through other channels.
And that's fine.
We are dramatically improving our website so that the people who are pulled
into the buying
journey get a better experience and they are better informed.
But our primary purchaser who's sponsoring us in that process is not first
meeting us
through that website.
They're meeting us through outbound.
And then obviously you use AI.
You have AI as one of your tools.
How are you thinking about AI?
What type of tools are you using when it comes to AI?
That's a great question.
So we are using AI throughout every part of our process.
So we use content drafting tools.
We use mid-journey.
We're using Firefly.
I will say that we don't love using AI for a lot of creative, generative tools
because
we have found by and large that the problem of two left feed is coming up a lot
And we have really very distinct brand standards.
Linda Gerber is our creative director and executive creative director.
It's phenomenal.
So we play around with a lot of stuff.
We use AI in all of our video editing tools.
Last year, I think Summit, we used a ton of AI, sort of early in the game for
the Vakes
keynote in creating some really interesting music.
And that was really exciting.
But more interestingly, we've asked all of our vendors to really show us what
they got.
So we just switched over to GONG engage.
And that's been interesting.
I've been kind of envious of what GONG has.
And we use GONG on the sales side for call recording and have been impressed
with their
tools for a very long time.
So now we're using them to be outbounding team.
And excited to kind of unlock their tools.
So it's more like just it's got to be in the water of everything that we do.
And it's just going to be a muscle going forward that we start to take for
granted pretty soon.
Any other thoughts on playbook or how you spend your money or examples or
anything?
I think you really can never spend too much time with your customers.
So making sure that you are out there personally talking to your clients, I'd
say, is really
just the number one piece.
And I onboard every new member to our cab.
And it's a considerable investment of time.
But it's my absolute favorite thing to do.
And in every single conversation that I have, there's always some light bulb
moment opportunity
that comes out of it, some piece of feedback that goes back to the account team
, some personal
connection we didn't know we had.
It's just always something great or an opportunity for them to speak a thing
summit, just something
terrific comes from it.
So I'd say making sure that you're investing and building those relationships
and just laying
those tracks.
Okay, let's get to our dust up.
This is where we talk about healthy tension, whether that's with your board,
your sales
teams, your competitors, or anyone else, if you had a memorable dust up in your
career.
This is such a great question.
I am lucky that we really have such a great culture here at removable.
I had to go back earlier in my career to when I was at Amex to find a dust up
moment.
And I was reminded of when I joined Amex, I took a role to be the first iPhone
app product
manager.
And then as I mentioned earlier, I joined in 2008 when of course there was a
recession.
And immediately there was no budget to develop iPhone apps.
So it was sort of tragic comic in it.
I had no job.
And I was immediately put on one of these like recession projects where they
asked me and
a bunch of other people my level to observe what was going on on Twitter
because it was
just like calamity was going on and Amex was sort of being commented all over
Twitter.
And there was a lot of Twitter was very mobile at that time.
So they thought, okay, so something to do with mobile.
And so for 12 weeks, they wanted me to like observe what was going on Twitter
and then
present back to this very, very senior committee, should we go or no go on
entering Twitter
from a servicing standpoint?
It's just this like very kind of big company response.
And I was able to assemble this great group of people and use this platform to
connect
with a bunch of people and use the connections I made to then get budget to
then build the
iPhone app.
And it was just a phenomenal experience of learning how big companies operated
and how
decisions were made, sort of watching these very senior people, you know, sort
of how
they all related to each other.
And then ultimately they did launch Ask Amex, the first Twitter handle for
American Express,
which was wildly successful.
And then from there, one of the people on that committee, Leslie Berland ended
up launching
American Express that handle.
And she herself ended up going on and becoming the Twitter CMO.
And it was just a really phenomenal project.
So sort of realizing like how decisions are made in big companies, how these
large groups
of people interacted and sort of realizing how to kind of maneuver around them.
I think that was one of the kind of more foundational moments in my burgeoning
career when I was
came in kind of hot and then learned how to maneuver around it.
Let's get to our final segment.
Quick hits, these are quick questions and quick answers, just like how quickly
someone
can go to Qualified.com right now and talk to a salesperson.
Quick and easy, just like these questions go to Qualified.com to learn more.
Allison, quick hits.
Are you ready?
Let's go.
Do you have a hidden talent or skill that's not on your resume?
Oh yes, when I was a kid, I used to be voiceovers for movies.
And so I've done all the voiceovers for product marketing videos.
Oh, fun.
That's cool.
I didn't know what anything cool that you did as a kid voiceover wise.
Oh, I did a Kevin Bacon movie.
So I'm one degree of Kevin Bacon.
That's pretty great.
What was your, what was your view?
Well, so I grew up in England.
So I originally had a British accent, but my mom is American.
So I used to be able to fake a really good American accent.
And now I just fake it all the time.
That's crazy.
Really?
Really?
That's crazy.
Like Kaiser Sose here.
Mm-hmm.
And then Pouf, she's gone.
Yeah.
Do you have a favorite book, podcast, TV show that you recommend?
I usually do a book club for the book "Influenced" by Chialdini once a year.
Have you read it?
No.
I'm going to invite you.
It's absolutely, I say it's the missing manual to humans.
It's by Robert Chialdini.
And he's a famous social psychologist.
And I think there's now seven principles because they added another one that's
sort
of the outgrowth of social media.
But it is literally the missing manuals for humans.
And when you read it, you will both be enraged and empowered because you will
realize how
manipulated you have been by all of them.
And if you read it in a social site class, the teacher will inevitably ask you
to do
exercises where you enact them on unsuspecting people, like a roommate or a
spouse.
Oh, funny.
And they're cruel but amazing and very simple.
Like how to cut a wine in a coffee shop or something by saying, "Oh, hey, I'm
so sorry.
Can I have to, do you mind if I cut you?
I have to get a cup of coffee."
Yeah.
Sure.
Oh, of course.
Go ahead.
You know?
But it works, you know?
So you've seen a lot of these on TikTok, but it's just crazy how effective they
are.
Retropos reciprocity.
Reciprocity is great.
Yeah.
So the feeling that I'll give you something if you give me something, but it
could be
something of just not a lot of value.
It'll like a compliment.
Do you have a favorite non-marketing hobby that maybe indirectly makes you a
better
marketer?
I guess I love going to the theater.
I was a drama major and I think inherently telling stories is really what we're
all about.
I went to the theater this weekend.
What did you see?
Saw Adams family.
Oh, my niece does high school theater and then they did Adam's family.
And she was Uncle Fester and was-
Oh, wow.
That was so good.
But it was an extremely fun play.
I don't know when this was written.
I'm going to hook this up afterwards.
There's so much good children's theater now.
There's so many good junior versions of things where they've created a sort of
kid version
and 90 minute version of something or an hour long version of things.
Well this is, I mean, it's high school.
Oh, great.
Oh, even better.
It's pretty edgy.
They do a really good job with the story and I was blown away by it because I
was going
into it.
All I knew was that the Adams family had no story at all and I went into it and
I'm like,
what is the story going to be?
I have no idea.
And they end up having a phenomenal story that really makes you think about
yourself
and family and all that stuff.
And I thought it was really good.
I love that.
And what a great experience for her.
Oh, she killed it.
It was so fun.
She like ate solos or something like that.
It was crazy.
Wow.
Yeah.
It's a really fun play.
I mean, we're here talking about marketing.
And it's the end of the episode.
If someone's still listening, you should check out Adams family.
If it's anywhere playing near you.
But one of the things that I found so interesting was it's a musical but it's
not just, you know,
like five songs.
I mean, it's like there's music sort of that are getting you from scene to
scene as well.
And so there's just, I don't even know how many songs are there.
It's advancing the plot.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And there's tons of tons of music, which was really fun.
But no, it's a great, it's a great, it's honestly a pretty timeless story.
And the backdrop of the Adams family is great.
And after just watching Wednesday, why watch a while ago?
Yes, it's so timely.
Yeah, super timely.
And yeah, I just, you know, I kind of fell in love with the Adams family after
watching
Wednesday and then I watched this and I'm like, I never cared about the Adams
family.
But you know, see, this is like what's so interesting to me.
You got me going a little bit.
But what's so interesting to me about sort of like quote unquote IP and these
and building
up characters and all these sort of things, like the Adams family, to me, like
Adams family
values and what I just was never really the biggest fan as a kid.
I just didn't, I just didn't, it was just wasn't my thing.
Yeah, just didn't resonate.
Yeah.
But now that I'm dad, now it's all I like it.
Totally.
From a very different, very different place.
It was funny.
I saw Wednesday and my girls watched it with my, we have a family lake house
and my siblings
were there and they're in their thirties.
And then the girls went to bed and we were going to change from Wednesday and
my siblings
were like, we can keep watching it.
I was like, this show is good.
It's really good.
It was good.
It was one of those unique shows that you could actually watch with your kids
and then
it worked on multiple layers.
Great casting.
Yeah, that's, that's what, so it's funny.
So we made this, this murder mystery podcast and murder and HR.
Yeah.
And it did really well.
And part of the reason, you know, in the, in the same realm of, of Wednesday
and only
murders in the building and some of these very popular sort of, this sort of
new type of
genre where you can watch with your significant other or you can watch with
like your, you
know, your older kids in the room and it's all good.
And like that type of storytelling is so popular now or it's so, it's so needed
I watched only murders with my 10 year old and dying to watch the next season.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's super popular.
And that's why I think that's part of the reason why our podcast was so popular
is like,
we get people like, you know, HR leaders listening to it because it's cool.
But then like they didn't listen with their kids because it's a fun murder
mystery, you
know, love that.
Anywho, it's great.
And not, this is the least quick hits of all quick hits.
Slove it.
If you weren't in marketing or business at all, what do you think you'd be
doing?
Okay.
So I was going to say, if it was still business, I would do executive search
because my favorite
part of my job is helping clients go from role to role that is hands down the
best
part.
But if it wasn't business, yeah, I can't do business.
I don't know.
I mean, I don't know.
What do people do if they're not in business?
That's I mean, I guess I'd be a voice over actor, right?
There you go.
I'd be a voice over actor.
There we go.
There we go.
I mean, just check out move the link.com and there's all my, that's my reel.
Sorry.
That's right.
All right.
What's your best advice for a first time CMO?
Spend a ton of time talking to your customers.
They have all the answers.
You just have to listen.
Well, that's it.
That's all we got for today, Allison.
Wonderful having you on the show for listeners.
You can go check out moveable link and you got cool events coming up.
You have one in Amia and you always have events going on and you got your
Friday webinars
now, Magenta.
So any final thoughts?
Anything to plug your awesome?
Yeah.
I just check out our website for news on things summit in June and New York and
also in October
in London and sign up for our newsletter.
Awesome.
Thanks so much.
Thank you so much for having me in.
Take care.
Bye.
Bye. Bye.
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