Ian Faison & Megan McDonagh

Harnessing the Power of First-Party Data


Megan McDonagh shares how Amperity is harnessing the power of their first-party data to retain and acquire customers and solve specific persona pain points.



0:00

[MUSIC]

0:08

Welcome to Pipeline Visionaries.

0:10

I'm Ian Fais on CEO of Cast Mein Studios.

0:12

And today we are joined by special guest, Megan.

0:15

How are you?

0:16

I'm good.

0:17

How are you?

0:17

Thanks so much for having me.

0:18

Thanks so much for joining.

0:20

Really excited to chat into all things in parody today.

0:23

And of course, your background.

0:24

So let's get into it.

0:25

How the heck did you get started in marketing?

0:27

I've always been fascinated with marketing ever since I was in,

0:30

I don't know, probably high school and thinking about what I want to do in

0:33

college.

0:34

And I was actually a marketing major and undergrad as a business major with

0:39

an emphasis in marketing and kind of started off my career by,

0:44

an entry level marketing jobs and moved my way up.

0:48

In between there, I got an MBA, which again,

0:51

another focus on emphasis on marketing.

0:53

But I've kind of always been fascinated with how humans behave and

0:58

how you can message and influence them to drive to your brand or

1:05

have them be interested in the products that you're driving.

1:08

So it's kind of always been a lifelong passion that I've had and

1:12

kind of always been tied to around a marketing role in my career history.

1:19

So flash words today tell us about what it means to be CMO.

1:22

What it means to be CMO.

1:25

So now I'm kind of in charge of the buck stops with me on all things marketing.

1:31

So I had several jobs amongst my career where I had a very deep focus in a

1:37

certain

1:37

area.

1:38

And as a CMO, you kind of have to be the specialist in at least a certain

1:45

level of knowledge in all of the functional areas, right?

1:49

And I have to also make sure that everything's tied together and

1:53

everything works together.

1:54

It's different being, in my opinion, being the CMO of a B2B company,

2:01

where I tell my team all the time that it's our job to make the sales team's

2:08

job

2:08

easier.

2:09

>> Yeah. >> So everything we do on a daily basis

2:12

makes the sales team easier.

2:14

In fact, we just had a sales conference and a sales kick off.

2:16

And our entire theme of our marketing presentation was, hey, sales, we have

2:20

your

2:21

back, marketing out your back, everything we do.

2:23

And that's the kind of the filter that we evaluate things through is, is this

2:28

going to actually help the sales team's job to make it easier?

2:33

If not, then let's not do it.

2:36

So that's a very kind of macro way of us viewing or

2:43

evaluating things, different ideas that we come up with.

2:47

>> Let's go to the first segment, the Trust Tree, where you go and

2:50

feel honest and trusted and share those deepest, darkest demand, gen, and

2:54

marketing secrets.

2:56

Tell us a little bit about Imparity.

2:58

What does the company do?

2:59

>> So Imparity is a customer data platform company.

3:03

And so if everyone's probably like, what does that mean?

3:06

We actually help B2C brands unify and

3:14

stitch together their first party customer data to make it really effective and

3:20

efficient.

3:21

So it actually can help retain and acquire customers.

3:26

It can help the analytics team better analyze the effectiveness of different

3:31

programs that are running and the ITEM to really gather and

3:36

implement, pull together all the data that they're within the company.

3:42

So most of the time, let's take for example with the marketer.

3:46

They're trying to evaluate who is our most valuable customer.

3:53

Well, how do you understand that and know that if you don't truly know who your

3:57

customers are, right?

3:58

You have data coming in from offline sources, maybe it's transactional from the

4:02

store.

4:03

You have your online sources with your e-commerce, maybe it's your loyalty

4:07

programs.

4:08

But how do you know if that data is not all unified and

4:11

stitched together?

4:12

Unless that's done, it's really hard to understand how to build really

4:18

effective marketing programs.

4:20

So the biggest challenge is we have three different audiences that we have to

4:28

make sure we keep up to date with, right?

4:31

First you have the IT persona that is usually in charge with managing a lot of

4:37

the different data feeds that are coming into the company, or

4:42

that the company has in which customer data sits in.

4:46

And then you have the analytics team that's in charge of making sense of all

4:50

this data.

4:50

How do we analyze and understand what's happening in the business and

4:54

what are the most impactful things that the company's doing and what are those

4:58

trends?

4:59

And you have the marketing team that's in charge of how do we actually retain

5:03

and

5:04

create great experiences and actually acquire new customers.

5:08

And ideally you want to acquire customers that are similar to those that

5:13

are your most effective customers.

5:14

So there's a lot of different challenges on the way that we have to

5:20

think about our marketing strategy.

5:22

And so we're, and each one of those three audiences are all experiencing

5:32

different pain points.

5:33

And so you can't talk them all in the same way.

5:36

Like what a marketer really wants to hear is very different than what an IT

5:39

wants to hear, the different than an analytics team wants to hear.

5:42

So we really have to think about what is the pain point of that audience?

5:48

Where do they show up within the marketing channels?

5:51

What kind of information are they looking for?

5:54

How do we communicate that we're solving their specific persona problem?

5:59

So it's kind of multi-dimensional of things that we have to think about,

6:04

which can create some complexities.

6:08

So we have to kind of break it down and think about our approach from who we're

6:13

targeting, what problem are we solving, and then what size company are we

6:16

talking to?

6:17

So we can kind of really narrow in and focus on that target audience and

6:22

making an impact.

6:23

>> So looking at those three audiences and those three sort of personas,

6:27

how do you build your overall marketing strategy that impacts those three?

6:32

And where does sort of pipeline generation or

6:35

demand gen fit into that?

6:35

>> Yeah, I mean, that's a really good question.

6:40

We try to think about within each of those audiences,

6:46

what's the biggest pain point?

6:47

And what does our product do in order to solve that?

6:54

And we develop campaigns that are specific to those particular personas.

7:01

If you think about the buying group of a product like ours, right?

7:05

It's an expensive annual investment to buy our product.

7:13

So we're really thinking about what's the right way in?

7:17

Like who's going to actually engage with our message?

7:24

And start going down the cookie crumbs or the rabbit hole that we're pulling,

7:29

that we're pulling that particular persona down.

7:32

Once we start getting into the sales cycle,

7:34

we know that the buying committee is much larger than just the persona that we

7:40

are actually tapping into.

7:42

And so we have to think about things or what are each of these audiences

7:48

going to relate to at the top of the funnel?

7:51

And how do we start pulling them in?

7:53

So some of that is we can think about looking at some search terms to say,

8:01

what are the most common search terms for our particular ideal customer profile

8:09

And what are they searching for?

8:11

And how do we relate to those through the different audiences?

8:14

And how do we build the right messaging and content around them?

8:19

So we can capture them in the right places within the funnel and pull them

8:23

down into our nurturing process to make sure we're educating them.

8:31

It's a complex product.

8:32

So we're not selling a pair of tennis shoes, which may be a little bit easier

8:37

to communicate.

8:39

There's a lot of education that has to happen.

8:42

If you think about the customer data platform category,

8:45

it's incredibly complex and it's very, very crowded with a lot of companies

8:53

that, at least from our point of view, are not full CDPs from end to end.

8:58

They deliver different value to the customer, but not quite the comprehensive

9:03

value that our product delivers.

9:06

But we have the extra challenge of not only having three different target

9:09

audiences.

9:10

We have a category that's very complex with messages that are all over the

9:16

place.

9:16

And anybody shopping for a CDP is naturally very confused as to what to choose.

9:24

And so we also have to add in a layer of education and making sure that we are

9:31

educating those three different personas on what's our definition of a CDP

9:38

and what value do we deliver comprehensively across the category?

9:45

That's going to actually help them make money, save money, and be much more

9:49

efficient

9:49

as a company, which every company is trying to do those three things.

9:55

So we have one layer of a campaign that's what is a CDP that can kind of relate

10:02

to multiple audiences,

10:03

where we really help educate them on what is our category,

10:07

and how do we help you kind of just wade through all of the information that

10:13

you need to

10:13

by highlighting the things that you should really care about.

10:17

And then we have individual campaigns to each of those audiences that are

10:22

addressing their pain

10:23

and showing how we solve that particular problem.

10:26

One of the newer initiatives that we're driving is around how

10:34

amperity by unifying your customer data. You can actually send those unified

10:40

really

10:40

accurate and comprehensive profiles directly to a Facebook, an Instagram, a Tik

10:49

Tok, a Crideo,

10:51

a trade desk. And actually what we're seeing is really incredible

10:59

match rates better than you've ever seen that we've seen before.

11:05

And the brands have been telling us this, as well as reduction their customer

11:11

acquisition costs,

11:12

and a really strong increase in efficiencies in the campaigns that they can run

11:18

against these

11:18

audiences. Because you're taking these comprehensive profiles with your first

11:22

party data,

11:23

and you're no longer relying on the third party cookie graph to actually find

11:27

those audiences.

11:28

So we call it as owning your own database

11:31

allows you to be much more effective than renting databases or audiences like

11:38

you have before.

11:39

Where you've called up your media agency and said, "Hey, this is the target

11:45

persona I need to find."

11:47

Instead, you're saying, "Here's our highest value customer. Here are the

11:50

customers that we know

11:52

are shopping with our brand, not only find them within your media database, but

11:59

actually

12:00

build us look-alike audiences based on the first party data that we are going

12:05

to send you."

12:07

And so we at least send the anonymized first party data, not the actual people

12:15

's names,

12:15

obviously. So that actually helps brands acquire customers that they actually

12:21

have not been successfully acquiring before because that third party cookie

12:25

data is diminishing

12:28

day to day. It's getting worse and worse and harder to find. So we're now

12:34

having a lot deeper

12:35

conversations with the CMO and the paid media side of companies, as well as

12:44

agencies who are

12:46

trying to help deliver constantly, increase the value that they're delivering

12:51

to their clients

12:53

by helping them use their first party data instead of renting, as we call

12:57

renting the audiences as

12:58

they have before. Yeah, it's such an interesting time for your product because

13:02

there's this

13:03

gigantic thing that happened to the industry. That's this a huge lightning bolt

13:10

that forces

13:11

behavior to change. You kind of aren't fighting organizational change pre-pand

13:16

emic when IT was

13:19

fighting up a hill on things like remote work or video conferencing or whatever

13:23

. And then all

13:24

of a sudden they're like, "Okay, well, pull off the band aid, we're doing it

13:26

now." So some of the

13:29

brands that we work with, we have a lot of really great brands and case studies

13:34

that we publish on

13:35

our website. Some of the brands we work with are very forward thinking and they

13:39

're kind of ahead

13:40

of the curve. But there's a lot of, there are brands that are, they're nervous.

13:45

They're like,

13:45

"What do we do? This is how we've always worked before." Right? We're using a

13:50

webinar agency and

13:51

renting our database and finding our audiences and seeing great return on

13:55

investment. And when

13:57

those things start to erode, it's, people are very nervous and what do I do?

14:02

And so what we're

14:03

trying to do is educate them saying, "It's okay, we have your back. First party

14:07

data is your new

14:08

current, this marketing is new currency. And it's the way that you're going to

14:11

be successful long

14:12

term. It's just a matter of like, how quickly is that cookie graph going to go

14:16

away? We're already

14:17

seeing it, right? You know, with, especially with iPhone users and you get the,

14:23

you know, the

14:24

notification, do you want to opt in to be followed? And most people are saying,

14:28

"No, don't follow me."

14:29

And with some of the privacy laws, especially as they're rolling out across the

14:33

US, starting with

14:35

California, now Virginia, and others, those privacy and consent is becoming a

14:41

really important

14:43

factor that brands have to understand. And by owning your database and being

14:49

able to control it,

14:51

and being able to unify it and understand, "Oh, this is my, you can actually

14:55

create a segment saying,

14:56

these are, this is my segmented audience who has not given us consent to do

15:01

anything,

15:01

you know, it's very limited. You can almost suppress those audiences saying,

15:05

let's make sure we,

15:06

we are very careful not to, not to do anything with them. But then you also

15:11

know the audiences

15:12

that have given you consent that you can actually talk to and engage with. And

15:16

that gives brands a

15:17

lot of data confidence to make sure that they're following all the guidelines

15:20

because nobody wants

15:21

to, you know, everyone wants to avoid any kind of, any kind of issues with,

15:26

with privacy or consent.

15:28

When we're talking to, when we're building shows when Caspian is working with

15:32

our customers to,

15:33

to build a podcast series, one of the things we always sort of like dive into

15:36

those personas,

15:37

and oftentimes, you know, the sort of first instinct is like, "Well, let's make

15:43

a show for all three of

15:44

these." And then you sort of realize, "Okay, nobody kind of, whatever, listen

15:47

to that." And so you

15:48

really have to dig in on, on segmenting those audiences, making something

15:52

special for them.

15:53

And I'm curious, like, do you think about those three audiences, like segment

15:58

ing them with like

15:58

your dollars? Do you think about segmenting them with like your team? Like, how

16:02

is your marketing

16:03

team structured around those audiences? How do you think about it, you know,

16:06

from a marketing perspective?

16:08

Yeah, that's a good question. You know, our product marketing team, we have a

16:12

specialist that

16:13

is, "Okay, you own the marketing audience. Someone that owns more, is more a

16:16

little bit more technical

16:17

and owns the technical audience. As far as our paid media, it kind of depends

16:22

on what the initiative

16:23

that we're running. For example, and it's kind of evolved over time. As we add

16:29

more and more features

16:31

to our product line, or to our overall, you know, product packaging, we're able

16:38

to have different

16:40

conversations with different audiences. Historically, we've had better

16:47

engagements with the IT and

16:49

analytics side of the house because they understand the messiness of data and

16:56

what's causing and

16:58

how it's causing problems. And the, you know, marketing will say, "Oh, that's

17:03

IT needs to,

17:04

you know, marketing will ask IT to kind of help us figure out all of our data,

17:08

right?" But it hasn't

17:09

really been marketing's responsibility. But now that we've seen really amazing

17:13

results with

17:14

a lot of our brands with paid media, we're now starting to, we can now relate a

17:20

lot more at the

17:21

top of the funnel to the marketing audience and saying, "Hey, you know, look at

17:27

all these great

17:28

these great results that we've had with, you know, very large QSR companies or

17:34

really large

17:35

CPG companies that brands would recognize that are seeing the results that they

17:40

've never seen before."

17:42

So there's something, you know, it's like there's something here, first party

17:46

data can unlock

17:47

growth for you that maybe you're in some of the declines you're seeing. It can

17:52

kind of turn

17:52

around that growth. So, you know, now we're seeing more engagement from the

17:58

kind of CMO and

18:01

marketing side where before the CMO and marketing team may come in a little bit

18:06

more in the sales

18:07

stage as the IT persona brings them together for that kind of buying committee.

18:13

Any other thoughts

18:14

on strategy or demand or pipeline generation? Yeah, I mean, we think a lot

18:24

about where is our

18:28

where are our audiences in their discovery? As I mentioned, this is a complex

18:33

product. It takes

18:34

a lot of education, a lot of evaluation. So we constantly think about where are

18:41

they in their stage?

18:42

Are they, you know, do we have the right content for them in the awareness

18:45

stage? And then what if

18:46

they're in the evaluation stage? What do they need to know about our product?

18:50

And, you know, maybe

18:51

there's case studies that we think will be really impactful for them. And then,

18:54

you know, when they're

18:55

closer to the purchase phase, we make sure that we, you know, get them to a

19:00

demo to really show

19:01

what we can do and really highlight, especially for their particular solution,

19:05

what we can do. So,

19:07

really splitting up kind of an understanding where they in the funnel and how

19:12

do we, what's the message

19:13

that's really going to work for them? And that's it's been more of a we have to

19:20

think a little bit

19:21

harder than kind of rules that I've had in the past at different, at different

19:24

companies, because

19:25

the stages are just they're longer, right? It just takes, it takes a longer

19:30

time to get

19:31

our audiences, you know, to the place where they're going to buy. We have to do

19:36

quite a bit of

19:37

education to do it. And understandably, because it's an expensive purchase and

19:40

it's new and it's

19:42

different. And it does require even organizational change and thinking in order

19:48

to implement our

19:50

product, because it's going to change the way you work for the positive. But,

19:56

you know,

19:57

organizational change and change management is a really important component

20:02

that we definitely

20:04

don't we don't take for granted. We know that that's it's hard across most

20:07

large enterprises,

20:08

because there's just there's lots of people that you have to bring along and

20:12

there's processes that

20:13

have to change. And so, we just want to make sure that we're kind of educating

20:18

along that way. So,

20:19

there's no surprises as they get down into the sales, into the sales cycle.

20:24

Yeah, it is it is super super complex, super complex when you have a complex

20:30

product.

20:30

And just nailing that that sort of the learner's journey versus the buyer's

20:34

journey is like where

20:35

they add in just like, you know, learning about this sort of new phase or this

20:41

new shift. And

20:43

where do they fit into their sort of, you know, people throw around obviously

20:46

digital transformation,

20:47

but it'll been around a long time. But it actually is a pretty good thing,

20:50

because you usually are on

20:51

some stage of that digital transformation and whatever, whatever transformation

20:55

you're sort of

20:56

going to if it's your whether it's a CDP or just your data, you know, you know,

21:01

going from whatever

21:03

data literacy to data data fluency as an organization and like how data driven

21:08

your organization like

21:09

really is. I mean, all those things are super important when you're selling

21:14

because if you're

21:14

like, hey, you know, you're kind of talking 401 stuff and I'm like, I can't get

21:18

my CEO to like

21:20

understand what data means, you know, or whatever it is. Yeah, so there's and

21:25

there's a lot of

21:25

education that needs to be done internally at each of the companies just

21:29

because we there's so much

21:31

utility and usefulness in the product. But if only one of our target audiences

21:36

buys it,

21:37

then they might be using it. But then you potentially could miss out on the

21:41

marketing team

21:41

benefit from it and the and the IT, or the analytics team benefit, benefiting

21:49

from it.

21:49

And let me give you one example, like, I mean, Brooks running has been a long

21:53

time customer of ours.

21:55

And the CMO at that company, you know, has a very influential role and has been

22:03

able to influence

22:05

multiple groups within the company to utilize this unified customer database

22:12

for for the good.

22:15

And in fact, you know, one of the great examples that we always like to

22:19

highlight is, you know,

22:20

there they called it stuff and said, you know, our customer service department

22:24

is now because

22:26

they have access to a unified view of the customer, they are able to actually,

22:33

you know, and you

22:34

plug it in with something like a zen desk. And they're able to actually

22:37

understand the customer's

22:39

problems before they basically before they even call call you or when when you

22:43

're calling, you know,

22:44

customer support. And someone answers and says, Oh, hi, I understand. I know

22:48

what your problem is.

22:49

You know, you bought something last week, and now you want to return it. And

22:53

your money is going to

22:53

be, you know, is going to be, you know, refunded to you in x days. And by the

22:57

what, you know, by the way,

23:00

you know, I saw that you returned the medium and you kept the large, you know,

23:04

can I get you to

23:05

maybe a product specialist that helps you understand like your size in our

23:08

brand and what what, you

23:10

know, apparel be most effective for you, right? So they can actually turn it

23:14

into a really great

23:15

experience versus, you know, most of the time when you call customer support,

23:19

it's where, you know,

23:21

it's usually not the most delightful experience. So they've actually been able

23:24

to kind of turn around

23:26

the impact and effectiveness of their of their customer support group, which is

23:31

great because

23:31

that wasn't necessarily the intention of why they bought it in the first place.

23:34

It was really more

23:35

for their marketing organization. But again, it's that change management and

23:40

that, and you,

23:41

how do you roll out a tool that can be effective for multiple groups within a

23:45

company? So that's

23:46

just one of many examples of of how having that unified profiles are able to

23:52

help all your downstream

23:53

tools. But just a matter of you plugging it into all the tools you use.

23:56

Let's get to our next segment, the playbook, or we open up that playbook. Can

24:01

you talk about

24:02

the tactics that help you win? What are your three channels or tactics that are

24:05

your uncuttable

24:07

budget items? Okay, that's good. Gosh, it's really hard to nail it to three.

24:13

But if I had to think

24:14

about it, I would probably say account-based marketing, really driving, because

24:23

we're selling to large

24:24

enterprises that are complex, being able to drive account-based marketing has

24:29

been really helpful for

24:30

us. Events and field, just field events in general have been incredibly

24:35

successful for us. And then

24:38

analysts and PR relations are really important because there's a lot, because

24:44

we're in a very

24:44

complex category, the analysts have got to be communicate. A lot of people turn

24:50

to an analyst,

24:51

especially for a new category to say, "What should I think about? What should I

24:55

look for?" And making

24:56

sure that they understand what our product does and how we're different has

25:00

been really helpful,

25:00

because these large enterprises, most of them have analyst contracts that that

25:05

's the first thing

25:06

they do is call up their gartner or forester and say, "Hey, can you help me w

25:11

ade through a lot of

25:12

the details here?" So those have been really helpful. Yeah, zooming in on the

25:18

ABM stuff,

25:19

anything you're doing that's particularly fun or exciting or has moved the

25:24

needle in terms of

25:25

generating pipeline. Well, the way we're trying to approach ABM is we take a

25:33

topic, a large topic,

25:35

and then we can create content for, and then we figure out, think about it as a

25:39

pyramid,

25:39

you think about the top and saying, "Okay, who are the 10 accounts that we can

25:43

actually

25:43

be much more specific and go deep with?" And then, "How do we build from the

25:48

same play a one to few?"

25:51

Maybe it's around a vertical or a pain point of a particular audience. And then

25:55

, "How do we build

25:56

a one to many where we can kind of scale it?" And that's where we're finding

26:01

the most

26:02

effectiveness and efficiencies, especially when you have a pretty lean and mean

26:07

marketing team

26:07

to do both ABM as well as have your kind of scale campaigns that captures a

26:14

little bit more of the

26:16

long tail of those accounts. So that's what we're really trying to drive right

26:21

now.

26:22

So it's kind of TBD if it's going to work. We're seeing early good

26:31

views into that, but over time we'll tell. It's a way to approach it that we

26:37

think we can actually

26:38

scale and without with a small team. Anything that you're spending money on, AB

26:47

M-wise,

26:48

or from the field of marketing standpoint, that's particularly ROI positive?

26:55

I mean, our most effective right now is events, webinars. Content syndication

27:04

does okay.

27:04

Obviously, you have your basic search just to make sure you're capturing the

27:11

right terms, but

27:12

I think our most effective has really been events. And as people have been

27:18

coming to,

27:19

obviously with the pandemic shift and people are actually coming to events,

27:25

those have been our most effective in driving leads. And I think the biggest

27:30

challenge with those

27:32

is, are they enough of them? And how do you make sure that you're maximizing

27:37

every single event

27:38

that you're going to? Because they are pretty expensive and they take a lot of

27:42

work. A lot of

27:43

just support to do them right, but they can pay off in spades. And so those are

27:49

some things we're

27:51

doing. But obviously around that, we build digital campaigns and experiences to

27:55

amplify those events.

27:57

And those anchor points are really helpful for us. And webinars have been a

28:01

good source as well.

28:03

So those are the things that we're constantly looking at.

28:08

Yeah, I'm curious for the events piece. Is it a blend of you doing your own

28:12

stuff,

28:13

or versus going to events versus sponsoring versus being the title sponsor? How

28:18

do you think

28:19

about that breakdown? Yeah, it kind of depends on what the event is and the

28:24

people that are,

28:24

the attendees we think are going to be there. And how, like, for example,

28:29

NRF, like we have a lot of retail customers. So that was a really great one for

28:33

us to

28:34

have a booth, because then you can scan badges and you can actually have

28:37

intimate conversations.

28:39

But at the same time, we build customer dinners. We get with our partners and

28:45

we sponsor happy

28:47

hour and events where we can have more intimate conversations. A lot of the

28:50

events

28:51

end up having kind of an opportunity to have one-on-one meetings. And we have

28:57

strategic reach

28:58

out ahead of time on the meetings that we really want to go drive with. Then we

29:04

do digital advertising,

29:07

programmatic and LinkedIn to try to geofence to get people to come to our booth

29:13

, to understand it.

29:14

Ideally, we would have a keynote speech. Sometimes we can and sometimes we don

29:19

't.

29:19

It depends on how expensive it is, how effective we think it'll be. But we have

29:25

found just the way

29:26

that a lot of events are evolving post-end pandemic. In order to really capture

29:31

leads that

29:32

are effective, you have to have that engagement. You have to have a booth where

29:36

they can come and

29:37

talk to your teams and see the product and engage with you. We try to figure

29:44

out how do we maximize

29:45

that within the two or three days that we have and really drive as many events

29:50

and touch points

29:52

for us to engage with customers who either were interested in us.

29:57

The things that are so brilliant, we hear events a lot on CadaBone. We hear

30:05

events a lot on

30:05

like, "Hey, this is one thing we're actually scaling back." It's so interesting

30:08

hearing all

30:09

the different takes on it. I think one of the things that's so brilliant about

30:12

events is that

30:15

you can get that person super casually that was like, "Hey, we're on that. We

30:22

're not

30:22

looking to buy it." I've always just wondered about imperative. I'm cruising by

30:28

. I've got five

30:29

minutes. I'll go get a squishy ball and I'm going to drink my whatever fizzy

30:35

water and just chat

30:37

for a few seconds. Those are the things that just like low stress, there's

30:41

other stuff. I have an

30:43

easy out. I can get out of the conversation. That just doesn't exist online.

30:48

When you're online,

30:49

you're disrupting what someone is already doing online. I tell this to my team

30:54

all the time when

30:55

we think about messaging. Imagine that you're on ESPN checking out the masters

31:01

because that

31:01

happens to be today. You're trying to say, and that particular persona is in

31:07

our target,

31:07

and we're trying to say, "Hey, come look at Amperity. Take time out of your

31:13

looking at who's

31:14

winning the masters to come and dive into our deep into our product over here."

31:19

It's really

31:20

hard to think about how to disrupt that in the right way. When you're at an

31:29

event,

31:29

you're there to understand what are the products and what's the innovation that

31:34

...

31:34

Let's take NRF, for example. What are the products and innovation around retail

31:40

? What's new?

31:42

And how can I improve what I'm doing? I'm going to go check out those people.

31:46

The good thing is,

31:47

then we can nurture people along. We don't expect them to buy next week, but

31:53

continue to update them on what we're doing and how we can help them solve

31:59

their problems.

32:00

They can take whatever time they need to understand what we're doing at their

32:06

own pace.

32:07

It really helps us to start that engagement. Casino, our engagement cycles,

32:15

some of them will take quite a while to nurture and get people down into the

32:19

sales cycle.

32:19

What about something that you're thinking about, perhaps not investing as much

32:23

in or cutting or

32:24

something like that? I think what has not... We have not really figured out is

32:31

programmatic display

32:32

for us just has not been working very well. Part of that's probably because the

32:38

cookie graph is going

32:39

away. We're thinking about our own messaging. When you're selling an enterprise

32:44

SaaS product that

32:45

it's somewhat complex, how do you communicate that in a banner ad? Who's going

32:53

to click on that?

32:54

It needs a little bit more. We're challenging ourselves to say, what is that

33:00

high-level message

33:01

that's going to get people to pay attention and to think about it? I'm taking

33:07

these, the

33:07

match rates. We can improve your match rates by 30 times. We have seen with

33:11

some of our brands.

33:12

If I were a CMO, I would click on that to say, how do I get 30 times their

33:17

match rates? That's

33:17

crazy. I'm not seeing that in my stuff. It's very important statistics that are

33:23

going to really get

33:25

people to think differently and to come down and understand a little bit more

33:28

about what we have

33:29

to offer. We don't spend a lot of money on programmatic display. We do a little

33:32

bit more on LinkedIn.

33:35

But it just hasn't been showing much value for us. We'll continue to fine-tune

33:42

it. We even use

33:43

six cents. We know who we're targeting in our programmatic. We're also thinking

33:48

about doing more

33:49

of competitive programmatic. If you assess with a hotel chain, we say, hey, new

33:56

hotel chain,

33:58

look how we've driven lots of value for your competitor. Click here to

34:02

understand. Again,

34:04

if I was the competitor, I'd be like, what do they do with my competitor? I got

34:07

to pay attention

34:08

to that. Everyone can get their competitor. These are some things that we're

34:12

starting to dabble in

34:12

that are going to be much more likely to get engagement than a generic display

34:19

ad.

34:21

Yeah, it's so tough. You want to use that stuff to warm people up to the brand

34:27

before those types

34:28

of conversations or keep something warm and more of a nurture face-foot. It's

34:33

still freaking expensive.

34:35

You can't measure. I'm never satisfied with just saying how many people did we

34:41

reach.

34:42

I know how long it takes. How many times do you have to run it in order for

34:46

people to pay attention?

34:47

If you survey a room and said how many people have clicked on a banner ad

34:55

recently,

34:55

you would have very few people that have raised their hands.

34:58

You know it's funny. We're running a bunch of LinkedIn ads right now for Casp

35:03

ian. One of the

35:04

things that we've been tracking internally is we try to make some funny ones.

35:11

How many people will screenshot it and send it to me? I saw this. This is

35:17

hilarious.

35:18

Well, that's awesome. You have to use humor. You have to use... We team and I

35:24

were discussing

35:26

how can we be a little bit more edgy because we're selling to B2C companies. We

35:33

don't have to be

35:35

boring B2B. We're really trying to push the envelope and how do we be much more

35:40

clever and

35:41

creative and witty and to break through? Because no one wants to see a boring B

35:47

2B ad.

35:51

They all look the same. We're really trying to break out from that B2B mold.

35:56

There's a lot of brand

35:59

strategy and design thinking that we're trying to evolve as well.

36:05

It reminds me of someone one time they were talking about a technology and it

36:11

was not a CDP.

36:12

It was something different, but they were like, "We have a five-minute problem.

36:17

You think about

36:17

this five minutes a year?" That's it. It's like, they're not thinking about it

36:22

the whole rest of the

36:22

year. They buy it once. They spend five minutes on it. This senior leader is

36:26

like, "Okay, these are the

36:27

three we're going to go with. All right, you want to do this one? Great. Let's

36:29

sign the check."

36:30

Then next year, we think about it for five minutes or renewal. It's like to do

36:34

all this other jiu-jitsu

36:36

to try to get to that thing. For them, that's not really what it's about. For

36:42

that five minutes,

36:43

we have to be memorable. All that stuff. How do you get in front of those

36:47

people?

36:47

You said to rise above the noise or cut through the noise is exactly right.

36:52

Also, just using really understanding within our ICP, who is actually showing

37:00

intent?

37:01

You're going to have much more luck. We look at that quite a bit. We have a

37:08

whole segment of

37:09

people that are showing zero intent. I tell my team, "Let's not worry about

37:13

them."

37:13

Because getting them into the intent is a heavy lift. I would rather take

37:19

advantage of the people

37:20

that are in the intent, at least somewhere in the intent journey and try to get

37:26

them over to us

37:27

versus our competitor. That's what we've been focusing on a lot. Some of that

37:33

stuff has been

37:34

much more helpful to do that. Otherwise, just a lot of time just banging your

37:39

head against the wall,

37:39

trying to get people into the funnel. It's the create-create-demand versus

37:44

capture-to-band

37:45

conversation. What are you doing for both is so important.

37:51

A small company, though, we have to pet your bets of, "Let's make sure we're

37:56

capturing the

37:58

people that are already in intention." As we grow and have a bigger team and

38:02

have bigger budgets,

38:03

maybe we can actually pull people in. Especially as the CDP as a solution

38:09

becomes more and more

38:11

mainstream, then we can start getting people into the funnel more.

38:19

How do you view your website? We view our website as our storefront. This is

38:25

our storefront. We don't

38:28

sell our product through the channel. This is how you engage with our company

38:34

and our brand and our

38:36

sales team. That's how we view it. We make sure that we're set up to capture

38:47

all of the right

38:48

journeys that come through our website because we have three different

38:51

audiences. That's really

38:53

critical for us, obviously, from even lead all the way through the sales

38:57

process.

38:57

We even see people coming onto our website when we're in the middle of a deal

39:03

process because

39:03

they're just trying to understand things. It gets complex. They're trying to

39:06

understand it.

39:07

They're trying to validate. It plays a really important role for us.

39:12

Let's get to our final segment. Quick hits. These are quick questions and quick

39:17

answers,

39:18

just like how Qualified.com helps companies generate pipeline quickly, tapping

39:23

your greatest

39:23

asset, your website to identify your most valuable visitors and instantly. I

39:28

mean instantly,

39:29

start sales conversations. That's the problem we were talking about earlier.

39:32

You're walking by,

39:33

check somebody's website. You want to talk to a person right now. You can do it

39:37

with Qualified.

39:37

Go to Qualified.com to learn more. Quick hits. Megan, are you ready?

39:43

Yes. Number one, do you have a hidden talent or skill that's not on your resume

39:50

I've doubled and I were dancing. Do you have a favorite book podcast or TV show

39:54

that you've been

39:54

checking out recently? I've been watching. I'm kind of deep in succession. I'm

39:59

all caught up and I'm

40:00

infatuated with it. What is your best piece of advice for first-time CMOs

40:09

trying to figure out

40:11

pipeline generation? Pipeline generation. Really understand who your target

40:17

audience is

40:18

and what their customer journey is and what contents needed at what place in

40:22

the funnel.

40:23

It's fairly straightforward but it's more complicated to actually do it

40:27

correctly.

40:28

Well, that's it. That's all we got for today. Thank you, Megan. So much. It's

40:33

been awesome

40:33

having you on the show for listeners. You can go to imparity.com, especially if

40:37

you know

40:38

of B2C marketer who's out there. You should definitely go check it out. Megan,

40:42

any final thoughts,

40:43

anything to plug? No, I just want to say thank you for having me. I really

40:47

enjoyed the conversation.

40:48

Awesome. Thanks so much and take care. Thank you.