The Value of a Being a Customer Hero
Meet Woodson Martin, Executive Vice President and General Manager of AppExchange for Salesforce.
(upbeat music)
- Welcome to Inside the Ojana.
I'm Dan Darcy, Chief Customer Officer at Qualified.
And today I'm joined by my friend, Woodson Martin.
Woodson, how are you?
- I'm doing great, Dan.
- And where are you filming from today?
- Today I'm in our San Francisco office.
We call the Salesforce Tower.
- Awesome.
So I wanna dive right into our first segment, Ojana Origins.
So going back to 2005, tell me how you discovered Salesforce.
- Yeah, we have to go back even further.
I was a customer at a company called Business Objects,
a software company, later required by SAP,
but I was running worldwide field operations
for business objects and brought Salesforce in
as a CRM to replace what was not working
as we were trying to run an old van Tiv CRM system
on premise at Business Objects
to run our Asia Pacific business.
And as we were growing, especially in Japan,
we needed very different technology.
The big driver for us was like,
we needed something that would actually recognize
the double byte characters to spell out the names
of the customers.
And so we had our old archaic van Tiv system
would work, we had to shop for something new.
That's how I found Salesforce in the first place.
- So in 2002, what was your experience with Salesforce
at that time?
Just obviously it was Salesforce automation back then.
How was it as a customer?
- Yeah, well, it was interesting
because we were running Salesforce in Asia Pacific
and we were running this van Tiv
archaic van Tiv system everywhere else.
And we had a quarterly business review at one point.
I think it was actually a Q1 review
and we were looking back on the prior year
and we had our GM of the Asia Pacific business standup
and he'd had a record performance.
And his,
and at one point Bernard Liatto, who is the CEO,
turned to him and asked him and said, how'd you do it?
And he's like, well, it was all because of Salesforce.
And so as the guy who had put Salesforce in, right?
Like it was, I had signed the checks
and brought Salesforce support.
It was like the most validating moment of my career.
And it was really, I told that story actually,
I think at the very first dream force, Mark hosted
the very first executive, some day,
it was a dinner at the top of one of the hotels
in San Francisco.
And Mark made me get up and tell the story
to every other customer in the room.
That was my first.
- Of course he does.
And I mean, so you were basically quintessentially,
you know, one of the early trailblazers, if you will,
obviously the current nomenclature,
but you were a customer hero back then.
So that's awesome.
So tell me how then did you take that
and actually come to Salesforce as an employee?
- Well, that same dinner I was telling you about,
I was actually sitting with Mark and Ray Lane
was there too for the real veterans of our industry.
Remember Ray's from his role as COO of Oracle.
And we had this great conversation over dinner
about the future of the software business.
And after dinner that night, I sent Mark and he,
thank you email.
And I said, by the way, you know, that was super motivating.
I think I should probably work for Salesforce.
And he replied back within like three minutes.
It was like, can you start tomorrow?
- What was your initial impression overall
internally at Salesforce?
- You know, I remember a time in my career
where I thought all the smart people worked at headquarters
and all the people out, you know, running around
in the field where just couldn't understand
really what we were doing.
And I got to Salesforce and everywhere I turned,
the people were really smart.
You know, I, and it's so motivating, you know,
to work with really smart people.
And of course Salesforce had a passion then still does
around customer success.
And it was just the first thing I recognized
is what a much more customer centric organization
Salesforce was.
You know, whether it is, you know, you get in the elevator
back then in the landmark building, you know,
with at any point in time, and you know,
here comes Mark and his dog, Coa.
And you know, the very first question he's going to ask you
is like, what customer did you talk to today?
And you know, what are you, and tell me about
the customers you're working with
and do everything that's always about the customers.
- So what's in, look, I know you've had a long,
incredible career at Salesforce.
So this may be somewhat of a tougher question,
but I want you to brag a little because
of just the incredible success
and the different roles you've taken on at Salesforce.
What would you say is the biggest success you've had,
or one of your most proud moments thus far?
- I think the most fun job I ever had
before the one I have now, which is truly awesome job,
was leading the marketing team in EMBA.
Based out of London for 2010 to 2000,
or 2007 to 2010.
So that was a amazing time for Salesforce.
You know, we had had an operation in Europe for many years,
but we went from a couple dozen people
to thousands of people in that time in Europe.
And from a real concentration of customers in the UK,
and a little bit of Ireland,
and just a teeny bit on the continent,
to really becoming a standard in the enterprise
for large customers across a wide swath of Western Europe.
It was an amazing, fast-paced, crazy, challenging time.
I've never traveled so much, of course.
Fortunately, the flights were shorter,
but it was an amazing and exciting time.
And I think the team that we built there,
I think that the progress that we made,
and really penetrating that market,
which was super skeptical when I got there,
about the cloud and SaaS.
And really seeing that turn,
and now it's just, it fills me with enormous pride,
every time now that I go to Europe,
or meet with European customers.
I spent two hours with one of our largest customers
in Europe this morning,
and it just gives me enormous pride
how much we changed things there in that time.
And it was great people.
Rob Acker, of course.
Carl Schachter made reappearance in that story,
but people like Lindsey Armstrong,
and some of these characters who really helped us
pull that off, just amazing people to work with
and work I'm really proud of.
- Yeah, I mean, I was fortunate enough to work with you
when you were CMO in EMEA,
and that was one of the very first times that,
we tested Dreamforce Europe.
Remember at the bar.
- Yes, 2008.
- Yes.
- At the bar at the center in London.
- At the bar at the center in London,
and back then, I mean, for the listeners
and the viewers out there, internet was not as
free-flowing as it is today,
where it's pretty much ubiquitous everywhere.
And I remember, we had troubles with Wi-Fi
during the event conference,
and we were like, "Oh my gosh,
"what happens if the Wi-Fi goes out?"
That means the cloud is not going to be working, you know?
But those were the stresses of way back in the day.
- Oh yeah, we would have backup demos
that were just entirely cached locally,
so that if the internet went out, it would still work.
They were live, but they were cached live,
because that was actually a real risk.
You'd lose internet and then all the keynote.
- Yeah, and that was one of my favorite stories,
was we gave an indication to Benioff to mark about,
if the internet went out at some point,
we would give a sign, and it was Jagger McConnell,
who would give that sign on stage,
and he would just walk off the stage.
And it actually did happen,
just for the viewers out there,
and Mark goes, "Jagger, now click on this,
"like that and change it back
"to from Japanese to English, right?"
- Right, yes.
- "Let's go take a look."
And then all of a sudden, he's like,
"Jagger, where'd you go?"
And everyone laughed.
But thank God, by the time Jagger went back on stage,
the internet was back up,
and he clicked through and the demo worked.
And so, those are some of those great behind the scenes
that I love sharing with that.
But that's just one example of just, you know--
- It's more of a little drama backstage
at the keynotes, for sure.
And you certainly had plenty of that experience
in your time.
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
- Now, so what's it on the opposite side of the spectrum?
You know, what would you say
is your biggest lesson learned here at Salesforce?
- I think probably the most important lesson
that I've learned at Salesforce
is really about the fundamentals of the game we're playing.
You know, we're basically in enterprise software, right?
Yes, we're doing it very differently
than previous generations of technology have done.
And we're basically enterprise software.
And, you know, enterprise software is very different
from a lot of other technology categories
in that what we are selling fundamentally
is transformation, it's change.
And people don't buy Salesforce to do things
the same way tomorrow that they did yesterday, right?
They are buying Salesforce
and it's true of other enterprise applications
that companies invest in.
They do it to affect change, to grow faster,
to improve productivity, improve performance,
improve customer experience,
and change at an organizational level,
of course you have to adopt software,
but the change that required to achieve
the transformational benefit really takes
a level of executive commitment.
And really, you know, obviously it depends on the size
of the organization and the work you're doing,
but board level commitment to change.
And, you know, so many times in my career
I've seen the, you know, excitement around the potential
for transforming our industry,
the enterprise software business
into something that, you know, customers buy
versus is being sold, right?
And I think the thing that I have really learned
is that because of this element of executive commitment
towards transformational change
that's a part of the value proposition of what we're doing,
like that does not get achieved
without a really strategic engagement
in it through a selling motion
between organizations, right?
Like we, what we are doing is so fundamentally
transformative for our customers
that we have to invest in those kinds of relationships
to develop and get to the executive suites
and understand the problems that they're trying to solve
and the transformations they're trying to lead
and then truly partner with them to do it.
And that informs almost every decision that we make,
including the decisions that we make about the product,
what products that we build
and what features to prioritize
and how we need to accomplish that
because it is, it's like the fundamental thing.
- If you could go back to your early days at Salesforce,
you know, you've been there now, you know,
almost close to 20 years,
what advice would you give yourself?
- Spend more time with customers.
It's kind of the advice I give
to every new product manager who joins at Salesforce
and is like looking for a mentor or whatever,
or anybody I hire,
I have just hired some new executives on my team
and I've said, you know, for the first 30 days,
I want you to just go talk to customers and partners,
just like go learn as much as you can
from the cold face, right, of our business.
And I think, especially as companies get bigger,
it's easy to spend all your time in internal meetings
and, you know, preparing for them
and pouring all your energy into the pixel perfect deck.
You know, you know, this story for the internal consumption
and I think some of that's really important
but like if you're sacrificing connection
with customers in the market,
to do that eventually you become irrelevant.
- That's a really sage advice
and you know, as being a customer of yours, Woodson,
I would say you have been completely open
and have listened to all of our, you know,
feedback and concerns.
So it is something that's very true that you live by
and I think that's incredibly sage advice
to everyone that's out there.
So I wanna ask you about the meaning of O'Hanna
and I ask this of all my guests because I feel like
when I think about this, everyone describes it differently
but I'm curious, how would you describe the O'Hanna
and what does it mean to you?
- I mean, I'm a literalist.
I would basically say it's the Salesforce family.
You know, to me that family includes,
of course, the people who work here
but it includes our customers and our partners
and the people who are betting their careers
on this ecosystem, which is now, you know,
millions and millions of people.
So it's a pretty big group
and it is, I think of it as kind of a thing with rings, right?
Like there's the very inner circle of the O'Hanna
which is probably where we put the employees
but there are some, you know, MVPs
in the Salesforce ecosystem
who I think fit right in there too, you know?
And one thing that to me is so powerful
about what we've somehow managed to create here
is the transformational impact
that discovering this ecosystem
has had on so many individual lives, right?
And I'm not even gonna say careers just like lives
and I've had this amazing experience lately
with a friend who's a refugee from,
he's from Cameroon and he has been here in the US
for a couple of years now
and he, after he was released from immigration detention,
he was determined to make himself successful
and in the US and he did it on Trailhead.
You know, he went and he learned
and he got himself all the badges
until he could get, scratch his way,
into a role working for a nonprofit customer of Salesforce,
doing some administrative work,
got himself a gig with a consulting company,
now he's a product manager
and he's launched a brand new product
which by the way, is aimed at helping
other people who are refugees today,
managing all their experience, legal process and so forth
on the Salesforce technology platform.
And I just think about the transformational power
of that kind of thing for him as an individual,
but for all the people who he's now able to help
by virtue of this technology, the skills he's able to grow,
the network he's able to build
and the power of all these people working together.
It's really awesome.
- I mean, that's incredible.
And I mean, that's also a huge thanks to you too, Woodson.
I know you don't wanna like promote yourself here,
but I'll do it on your behalf
and I know you had a direct hand
in helping drive that as well too from a refugee standpoint.
You know, just for the listeners out there,
I would love for you to plug, you know,
that nonprofit that you have started and created
to get that out there as well.
- Yeah, so I can't claim to be a founder on that one
that we've just described.
That's Mobile Pathways, an amazing organization
led by Jeff O'Brien and Bart Scapura,
but they are Mobile Pathways,
which is the platform behind the product
I just described that my friend has been working on.
His name is Jamal,
is an incredible nonprofit themselves,
leveraging technology from Salesforce,
but from other technology vendors,
they use tech from Twilio, they use tech from WhatsApp,
they have a variety of tech they've stitched together
to serve these immigrant communities
and provide them with legal aid and assistance
in a scalable way so that they can show up in court,
best represent themselves in the immigration process
and have a chance at a new life.
And it's an incredible example of pro bono contribution
by the O'Hanna, you know, to an important mission like this.
I think there have been more than 40 Salesforce volunteers
who've worked on the pro bono and the tech to build this out.
And it's just a super powerful example
of what the O'Hanna can do to have an impact in the world.
- Yeah, I mean, that's incredible.
I mean, you know, just, you know, when every time
when people wanna know the meaning of O'Hanna,
you know, this interview alone has already said
two of the major ones, it's just like,
get in front of the customer and become a force for good,
right? And so that's awesome.
Now, before we get into our next segment, Woodson,
are there any special stories or O'Hanna moments
like you just shared?
That is a little behind the scenes
that you would wanna share for everyone.
Like what would be another good use case
of an O'Hanna moment?
- I've been involved in examples of individuals
who might be Salesforce customers or partners
or employees and I've seen this happen in all of these cases.
Who've been impacted in some way by tragedy
and seen the community rise to help
in ways that are stunning and incredibly impactful.
You know, somebody whose family was in trouble
in a foreign country, in a conflict zone,
where the Salesforce team rallied
to drive an evacuation across borders
into countries where we have no footprint,
no customers, right?
No partners, but really amazing
allocation of resource to help solve individual,
personal, you know, challenges.
And it's just amazing to see the people come together
to do this.
And so without, it's not my story,
without naming names there.
I just wanna say I'm incredibly proud of that kind of thing.
- So let's get into our next segment, What's Cooking?
So Woodson, you are now the Executive Vice President
and General Manager of the Salesforce App Exchange.
I want you to talk a little bit about how you got
to where you are now and what your journey has been like
to get to that current role.
- You know, the App Exchange is a marketplace,
it's a product, right?
We build software that helps our customers discover
these applications in the marketplace.
And it's got all the fun stuff.
It's got AI and discovery and search and recommendations
and all of the cool things.
And it is, and it has live engagement, right?
It has chat feature in the App Exchange,
of course, powered by Qualified.
So it's product, but of course,
it's also the demand generation to get everybody there, right?
To engage the trailblazers and find them
wherever they are in their journey with Salesforce
and bring them into the App Exchange
and begin the journey of discovering
the power of the ecosystem.
And so there's a lot of marketing there,
marketing to customers,
marketing what's in the marketplace, right?
Marketing to partners, we got to have partners join
and build and develop a business in our marketplace.
And then obviously to market with those partners
to help them with the demand generation
and to drive customer acquisition.
And so it has a lot of marketing.
And then, you know, there's a lot of complexity
to the operations of this thing.
There's a lot of transactions there.
There on marketplace is full of innovations.
Not our innovations work, right?
Like sometimes the companies die, right?
Behind these things.
And that has to all be managed, right?
Oh, how do we, how do we delist applications?
How do we help customers who've used those applications
and find alternatives?
There's a lot of work involved in operating a marketplace
in an ecosystem of the scope of the App Exchange.
And you know, it's pretty big.
It's 7,000 listings in the App Exchange today.
There's more than 10 million installations
in the history of it.
It's grown a long way.
You know, from the science project it started as when we,
you know, really began that work back in 2005
as a way to prove the value of the platform, you know?
And it's had a lot of impact.
Now, every customer uses something from the App Exchange,
right?
And many use way more.
One customer I was talking to this morning
using 20 plus applications from the App Exchange.
So it's a big impact.
And it's a lot of fun.
- Yeah.
And that's incredible just to hear the success
that the App Exchange is continuing to deliver
for the customers that are out there.
You know, you could take this from either a product
or a community interpretation,
but with the Salesforce App Exchange,
what challenges are you seeing now?
And how are you applying what you learned,
obviously through your careers at Salesforce
to these challenges?
And I know you just mentioned, you know,
product marketing and operations.
I know you're taking a lot of that.
But what are you seeing?
- Salesforce has also diversified a lot
in our product portfolio since my first day is here in 2005.
And, you know, the App Exchange,
as a value proposition, the platform,
the listings in the marketplace largely revolve
around, you know, more of the original Salesforce products
than the acquired ones.
And so as we think about the potential
and the future of the App Exchange,
a lot of it is about extending this value proposition
to the rest of the customer 360, you know,
to the marketing cloud, the commerce cloud,
milsoft, slack, tableau.
And we, and I'm doing a lot of work on my team
and with a lot of our product partners across the company
doing a lot of work to say,
how do we make this all work better together
and bring these, the same ecosystem value proposition
to the rest of Salesforce?
So that's probably the other biggest chunk.
And then there's just, you know, there's a lot of work.
It's a lot of partner relationships,
a lot of customer relationships
and we have all the same, you know,
anybody running a business, lots of customers.
And lots of partners has a lot of work to do.
But I love that, you know, I love that part of the job.
I love the time I get to spend with customers
and with partners, understanding their problems,
working on solving them where I can,
sharing expertise or, you know, best practice
where that's the need, you know,
and finding like the breakthrough insight
that, you know, can take us to the next level.
So what is next for the AppExchange
and how are you thinking about shaping the future?
- Well, this year is super exciting
because we're basically re-releasing the AppExchange.
So we did the homepage of the AppExchange
completely revamped in March.
And this year we're rolling out
an entirely new experience of the AppExchange,
both for customers to discover,
evaluate solutions, but also for partners.
So the entire experience of the partner
in joining the partner program, listing apps on AppExchange,
going through the security review process, et cetera,
we're revamping entirely.
That's just super exciting, bringing a fresh set of eyes
to that and rethinking all of that
from the user perspective and taking it to the next level.
I'm very excited about that work.
It's already starting to hit the street
and there'll be much more coming this year.
- Okay, so let's get into our final segment,
future forecast.
All right, what do you envision as the future
of the Salesforce ecosystem?
- I think Salesforce has been a tremendously influential
force for good in the world,
the philanthropy, philanthropic mission for sure,
but our engagement in cultural issues,
our impact in terms of driving successful customer,
our customer success, economic growth.
I think there are so many great influences
Salesforce is having in the world
and I see that only accelerating.
And as, while there are certainly places
where tech as an industry is challenged,
in terms of is it good or is it not good
for the world and the society and everything else,
I think Salesforce is in a very good place
in that way.
I think we are broadly perceived
as a very positive influence in the universe.
And now that's the one thing I'm super proud of.
I mean, I think sales are gonna continue to grow.
I think Salesforce is gonna continue to become,
to offer more specific capabilities in more specific ways.
So industries is an obvious example of a place
where we've started to do that a lot,
that will continue more and more industries.
We'll be able to, with our scale,
provide more effective specialization
in domains like industries,
but also for geographic markets and cultural market,
markets that are different culturally.
And I think this is one of the great benefits
that comes with scale.
So I think all of that's part of the future.
- So speaking of that, for all the listeners
and the viewers out there,
what advice would you have for an aspiring leader?
- I think as a leader,
we need to always be asking ourselves,
what do I want to learn?
Frame our futures and our thinking about our futures
and our asks about our futures in the context of learning.
What do I want to learn next?
Who can help me achieve that?
What experiences could help me achieve that?
Or become part of your next steps.
But the discipline around really translating your ambitions
for status, really into ambitions for learning.
And so yes, you want to be a VP
or a senior vice president or whatever.
Well, like what do you think it is you need to learn
to do that job effectively?
How do you think you can learn that?
Who do you think you can learn that from?
Those become the important questions
to give you tangible work to do,
to drive your own career,
to drive your own impact in the world.
- Yeah, that's awesome advice, Wurzen, thank you.
Now, before letting you go,
I want to have a little fun with a quick lightning round.
Are you ready for this?
- Yep, okay, let's do it.
- What's your favorite Salesforce product?
- Slack.
And it wasn't two years ago.
Okay, classic or lightning?
- Lightning.
- Favorite Salesforce character?
- Appy, of course.
- Of course.
Favorite brand of anything besides Salesforce
or the AppExchange?
- This was hard for me.
The answer is Tesla.
And I feel conflicted about the answer,
but that's the answer.
- Good answer.
What secret skill that is not on the resume?
- I'm a builder, like carpentry, hammers and nails.
- That's awesome.
So you just won front row seats,
front row seat tickets to your dream event.
What is it, and it can't be Dreamforce, so?
- It's the Warriors taking the national championship
in a week.
- Yes, yes, go dubs, go dubs.
All right, Woodson, well, this has been so much fun,
but before I let you go,
let the listeners know where they can find you,
and is there anything else you'd like to share
or anything to plug?
- I'm @Woodson_Martin on Twitter.
I might email address [email protected].
- Anything else?
- Spend some time on the AppExchange.
If you go to appexchange.com/new,
there's an amazing page that shows you
all the latest innovation from our ecosystem.
Every day of the week, it's amazing.
I'm always surprised by what I find.
It's cool, check it out.
Thanks Dan, Darcy, by the way,
for this opportunity to talk to this crowd.
I'm excited.
- Well, thank you, Woodson,
and it's been incredible and good catching up.
Thank you so much.
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